The Trinity On Trial

Five Major Problems With The Trinity - Sean Finnegan:

"God catches the wise in their craftiness."
Baby Jesus Talking about the trinity of gods:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H3SAckxFVQ

If one just clears away all the confusing cobwebs and looks at it simply and clearly, the doctrine of the Trinity is remarkably easy to completely refute. This article presents only one of numerous ways to disprove the Trinity. Rob Bowman, a Trinitarian apologist, writes that Trinitarians must affirm the following points in order to affirm a belief in the Trinity. He also admits that if any one of these points can be disproven, the doctrine of the Trinity is thereby proven false:

1. There is one God (i.e., one proper object of religious devotion).

2. The one God is a single divine being, the LORD (Jehovah, Yahweh).

3. The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is God.

4. The Son, Jesus Christ, is God.

5. The Holy Spirit is God.

6. The Father is not the Son.

7. The Father is not the Holy Spirit.

8. The Son is not the Holy Spirit.

As Bowman insists, Trinitarians absolutely must affirm and insist upon all of the above beliefs in order to logically confess this doctrine and if a single one of these beliefs is shown to be false, the entire doctrine of the Trinity disintegrates and is thereby proven to be totally false. Every single point must be valid for the overall doctrine to be valid. These points provide no room for doctrinal adjustments since no adjustments are possible to these points without destroying the overall doctrine itself. This site focuses primarly on disproving the Trinitarian claims concerning Point 4 because Trinitarians tend to focus their efforts on point 4. However, points 7 and 8 must also be true and if they are not true then the doctrine of the Trinity is necessarily a false doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity is proven false if either of these two points are proven false. Indeed, if ANY of the above points are proven false, the doctrine of the Trinity disintegrates. We will here in this particular article undeniably prove those two points to be completely false and thereby disprove this doctrine.

Point 8 - The Son IS NOT the Spirit

The Bible affirms very clearly that Jesus IS the Spirit.

In Trinitarian doctrine Jesus is not the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit is a separate third person in Trinitarian doctrine. One cannot say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit since that would be saying one person is indeed also another person. However, the Bible clearly affirms the risen Lord Jesus IS the Spirit at 2 Corinthians 3:17.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted because the veil is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but when a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. (2 Corinthians 3:14-4:5).

Now it is quite obvious to the unbiased reader that the Lord of this passage is Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul is telling us that Christ IS the Spirit. However, since Trinitarians perceive this passage destroys the doctrine of the Trinity, an interpretive contrivance is in order. One contrivance is to pretend "the Spirit" at 2 Corinthians 3:17 is not a reference to their third hypostasis, the Holy Spirit, but a term to refer to a substance, a what, "spirit". However, the honest person will quickly see that Paul has been discussing the superiority of the ministry of the Spirit over the Law.

....written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God... God, who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in the letter but in the Spirit for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Since the Spirit is understood to be a 3rd person in Trinitarian doctrine, the Trinitarian is caught in an inescapable dilemma of having Person A as Person B but Trinitarian doctrine claiming Person A is not Person B. Hence, they perceive a need to contrive.

When it is realized the above contrivance will not work for them, another contrivance pulled out of the hat is to suggest that "the Lord" of this passage is not Jesus but some other identity such as the Father. However, this will not work either. In Trinitarian doctrine, the Father is not the Spirit either. If we were to identify the Lord as the Father, the Trinitarian would then be caught saying the Father is the person who is the person of the Spirit and he cannot say this without contradicting his own doctrine. In his doctrine the Father is NOT the Spirit. If we were to identify "the Lord" as the Triune God then they would be caught in saying the Triune God is the person who is the Spirit and he cannot say this either without contradicting his own doctrine. No matter how the Trinitarian identifies the Lord he is caught in his own snare.

Secondly, the Lord is indeed clearly identified in the immediate context. Paul opens his letter with two references to the "Lord Jesus Christ." "The Lord" is the standard way for Paul to refer to the risen Jesus and this passage is no different. We see in this passage that the veil is removed "in Christ" and only when one turns to "the Lord" is it taken away. Reasonable people will see that "turning to the Lord" and having the veil taken away is the same idea as having the veil "removed in Christ." The Lord who is the Spirit is Jesus Christ.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

And even further to the point, Paul says we are being transformed into the same image from glory until glory. This is the same typical Pauline language for being free in Christ being conformed into the image of Christ that Paul uses elsewhere in his writings:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us... the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.... For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son. so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.(Romans 8:29-30; cf. Gal 4:29-5:1; Php 3:10-11; 1 Cor 15:49).

When we look at the obvious evidence of the immediate context we can see plainly that "the Lord" of this passage is no one else but the Son of God and Paul identifies the Son of God as "the Spirit" in direct opposition to Trinitarian doctrine which claims "the Son is not the Spirit" and there is absolutely no way out of the dilemma here for the Trinitarian but a good dose of denial.

At 1 Corinthians 15:45, Paul refers to the risen Jesus as being raised "life-giving Spirit." Paul has the very same thing in mind here in 2 Corinthians. And just as he talks about the glorification of the body in 1 Corinthians 15, he has the same thing in mind here when he is referring to the glory of Jesus in believers. The risen Jesus IS the Spirit.

In the preceding context, Paul discusses the ministry of the Spirit. Trinitarians otherwise insist "the Spirit" in this passage is the 3rd person of his Triune God. But when the doctrine of the Trinity is in view and he must deal with the words of 2 Corinthians 3:17, he changes his mind for the occasion. He is caught in the inescapable dilemma of Jesus being identifed as the Spirit, that is, the dilemma of the 2nd person of his Trinity being identifed as the 3rd. But in Trinitarian doctrine the 2nd person is NOT the 3rd and he ends up with a contradiction diametrically opposed to his doctrine.


Point 7 - The Father IS NOT the Spirit

The Bible affirms very clearly that our Father IS the Spirit.

Did the Father of the man Jesus of Nazareth conceive Jesus in the womb of Mary? In Trinitarianism the answer is that he did not. In Trinitarian doctrine, another person altogether conceived the man Jesus of Nazareth and that person is the Holy Spirit, someone who is not the Father in Trinitarianism. In other words, Trinitarians are caught in the serious dilemma of having one person conceiving baby Jesus (the Holy Spirit) but another person being his father (God, the Father of Jesus). It is an absurdity of absurdities.

The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35).

The honest reader can see that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father who conceived baby Jesus of Nazareth and not a 3rd and separate person who is not the Father. In Trinitarianism, the Holy Spirit is not the Father and they create for themselves here the ridiculous predicament of having one person conceive baby Jesus but Jesus having another person altogether as his father. Absurd.

Another clear indication that the Father is the Holy Spirit are parallel statements made by Matthew and Luke:

When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say." (Luke 12:11-12).

But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. (Matthew 10:17-20).

The term "Spirit of God" is obviously a term which means "Spirit of God the Father." However, in Trinitarian doctrine, "the Spirit" is not the Spirit of the Father but a 3rd person in addition to the Father and so they must conclude and do conclude that, "the Father is NOT the Spirit." But we have clear Scriptures which show the Father is the Spirit. And again the Trinitarian doctrine is easily proven wrong.

Of course, multitudes of denials are always in order when such things are presented to the Trinitarian. And of course this brings up the issue of how both Jesus and the Father can be "the Spirit." But anyone who comprehends the nature of the resurrection can quickly see how this is so. We will discuss this in more detail in another article. "Father" and "Son" are WHO they are; "Spirit" is WHAT they both are; the risen Jesus and the Father are both "the Spirit." In the same way that both Adam and Eve are both "the flesh" and the one flesh of Adam, both God the Father and his Son are now one Spirit of God. The flesh of Eve is the flesh of Adam and the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. And just as Eve is the flesh of Adam but is not Adam so also Christ is the Spirit of God but is not God. The Spirit in us is the presence of both the Father and Jesus which is why Jesus taught that both Father and Son will come to make their home in believers. God the father IS Spirit and so now also is the risen Jesus.

The Bible plainly shows the Trinity doctrine to be completely wrong. In Trinitarianism the Spirit and the Father or the Spirit and the Son cannot be one and the same. The Bible says the Son of God IS the Spirit. Trinitarianism says the Son of God IS NOT the Spirit. The error can be no plainer than this and the whole doctrine of the Trinity must affirm the Son is NOT the Spirit or it does not and cannot stand. The reader should seriously consider the gravity of the facts here. This is not a minor and inconsequential point. If point number 7 above, or point number 8 above, are false statements, the entire doctrine of the Trinity is proven to be FALSE. And the honest reader will realize there is no escape from that reality.


Point 4 - The Son, Jesus Christ, is God

The Bible clearly affirms the Father alone is God.

There are 3 possible ways the statement "Jesus is God" could be disproven. First, we could find a statement in Scripture that insists the Son is NOT God. No such statements exist in Scripture. Of course, no such statement exists that says the Son is not a pumpkin either and this does not give us a license to suggest that he is a pumpkin. Secondly, we can demonstrate that there is no evidence that the Son is "God." Most of the information on this site is devoted to demonstrating this fact and exposing the logical fallacies behind Trinitarian claims on that point and so we will not discuss that particular point here. The third way is to find a statement where someone else claims that he alone is God and only he is God, such as the Father of Jesus. If we were to accept such a statement from God to be true then we must confess the doctrine of the Trinity is false. But does such a statement exist? Yes.

Do you thus repay Yahweh, O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father who has bought you? He has made you and established you.... See now that II am He, and there is no God besides ME. (Deuteronomy 32:6, 39).

Here, the LORD, YHVH, identifies himself as the Father and He declares there is no God besides "ME". He says "there is no Elohim besides "ME." Who is "Me?" The Father has identified himself as the one doing the speaking. The Father is insisting that He alone is God. Now if He alone is God then no one else can also be God. But Trinitarianism insists that two other persons are also "God" too in direct opposition to the Father's declaration. Who are you going to believe?

Who is necessarily speaking in this passage? Who is this person's servant and chosen?

Behold, my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom MY soul delights: I have put MY Spirit upon him... I am YHVH, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another. (Isaiah 42; cf Mt 12:18).


Conclusion

It is easy to demonstrate that Trinitarian doctrine opposes the Holy Scriptures. While their doctrine says the Son is not the Spirit the Bible says the Son is the Spirit. While their doctrine says the Father is not the Spirit, the Scripture indicates the Father is the Spirit. And even though God the Father says there is no God besides "me" the doctrine of the Trinity declares there are two others who are God too in direct violation of God's very own words. Even if only one point of the eight is wrong the entire doctrine is also wrong. And if we hold the Bible to always be true then the doctrine of the Trinity is proven to be necessarily and absolutely false whether any given individual or group of individuals likes it or not.

"Father... that they many know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." - Jesus

"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you" John 15:7.

"To pray in Christ's name means much. It means that we are to accept His character, manifest His spirit, and work His works. The Saviour's promise is given on condition. If ye love Me, He says, keep My commandments. He saves men, not in sin, but from sin; and those who love Him will show their love by obedience" The Desire of Ages, 668.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love" John 15:7.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

"As you ask the Lord to help you, honor your Saviour by believing that you do receive His blessing. All power, all wisdom, are at our command. We have only to ask" Pr 16.

https://sites.google.com/site/howtoperformmiracles/sample-prayers-to-pray


The Holy Spirit was sent as the most priceless treasure man could receive. {ML 36.5}

[Godhead truth V/S Trinity Deception] The Personality of the Holy Spirit and Satan's lie: The Personality of the Holy Spirit and Satan's lie

A persons spirit is their mind, will and emotions. It is who you are. So a spirit is not and never can be a literal person in itself. If it were, it would cease to be a spirit.

For instance, in order for a spirit to be another person, it would also have to have its own spirit. In other words, for the Holy Spirit to be a person, it would have to have its own spirit in order to have its own mind, will and emotions. So you would end up with the Spirit of the Holy Spirit.

Along with this false theology introduced by Satan so he could achieve worship, man seems to have lost all touch with the reality of a what a spirit is.

However, while our spirit is within us, God's Spirit can do what ours can't. He can send His Spirit anywhere and is how He and His Son represent “Themselves” where “They” are not personally present.

In other words, the Holy Spirit is their presence and power in you.

Unless of course you have chosen Satan's creation called “god the spirit!” Then you have rejected the Spirit of the Father and Son and have Satan's creation instead!

This is what Satan planned when he created the Trinity doctrine long after the Bible was written.

PERSONALITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

We have a spirit and our spirit is our personality. 

God has a Spirit and His Spirit is His personality.

When our spirit speaks or grieves, it is us that is speaking or grieving. 

When God's Spirit speaks or grieves, it is God that is speaking or grieving.

It is the same whether it is our spirit or God's Spirit as Paul tells us. We should expect no less. But note Paul states man's spirit is within him while God can send His Spirit anywhere.

“For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit WITHIN HIM? In the SAME WAY NO ONE knows the thoughts of God EXCEPT the Spirit of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11

So when God gives us HIS Spirit, He gives us Himself. NOT ANOTHER PERSON!

These are words of CHRIST through HIS prophet! 

“In giving us HIS SPIRIT, God gives us HIMSELF,” — (E.G. White, 7T 273.1, 1902)

The Holy Spirit is His presence and power. The deceived who push the satanic doctrine of the Trinity claim those with truth teach that the Holy Spirit is a force or like an electric current. This is a disgraceful lie and is a dishonest means to try and discredit the truth which could only come from Satan as it is indeed a lie!

Again, here is the truth from the words of CHRIST through HIS prophet!

“The DIVINE SPIRIT that the world's Redeemer promised to send, is the PRESENCE and POWER of GOD.” — (E.G. White, ST, Nov 23, 1891)

So our spirit has a PERSONALITY which is our PERSONALITY but that does not make our spirit another person. Does it?

And God's Spirit has a PERSONALITY which is God's PERSONALITY as it is His Spirit.

And for even further evidence, below we see the “Holy Spirit” IS the “Spirit of the Father!”

Luke wrote, “take you no thought how or what thing you shall answer, or what you shall say: For THE HOLY GHOST shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say.” Luke 12:11-12

And below is the same account from Matthew and what he called the Holy Spirit.

“take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. For it is not you that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you.” Matthew 10:19-20

Matthew called the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of your Father,” and so is not another being but God's Spirit, and why it is called the Spirit of God. It is not called “god the spirit.” His Spirit of course is Holy and why it is also called the Holy Spirit.

So why did Satan spread the idea of the Holy Spirit as another god? Who wants to be like the most High and be worshipped and prayed to as God? Isaiah 14:12-14 informs us that this is Satan's desire.

By Satan creating the Trinity doctrine, it creates a non-existent third being. Satan can then step into that position he has created and not only receives the worship he desires, but he would also effectively regain the position he lost as the third highest being in heaven. This is known as worship by representation and is what Satan has also done with Sunday worship.

Does it matter if we choose a non–existent god that is a creation of Satan to be the Holy Spirit so he can get worship and have us deny the real Holy Spirit? In other words, does it matter if we have the Spirit of the Father and Son or a creation of Satan and hence reject the real Holy Spirit?

The third person in the Trinity is actually Satan! It should be obvious that if you get this wrong you will not be in the kingdom!

So when the someone says the Holy Spirit has a personality so therefore it must be another person, know that you are being lied to and are trying to indoctrinate you into wrong thinking that will cost you your soul.

The Personality of the Holy Spirit and Satan's lie

A persons spirit is their mind, will and emotion...


"When the character [thoughts and feelings] of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own" COL 69.1.

The Holy Spirit is the Lord Jesus Christ's CHARACTER in us, the living law of God in us! The law of God lived our in our daily little choices, through our TEN fingers and TEN toes! We are to do the TEN Commandments with our TEN fingers, the Holy Spirit is the FINGER of God upon us Luke 11:19-20:

"19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." Luke 11:19-20 KJV.

"27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." Matthew 12:27-28 KJV.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" 2 Cor 3:17 KJV.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" John 6:63 KJV.

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" 1 Corinthians 15:45.


To learn more, visit www.trinitytruth.org


"The Holy Spirit is to be continually present with the believer. We have need more carefully to consider the fact that the Comforter is to abide with us. If we individually comprehended this truth, we should never feel alone. When assailed by the enemy, when overwhelmed by temptation, we are to repose our faith [obedience] in God; for we have his pledged word that we are never to be left to battle alone. Every soul, pardoned of sin, is precious in his sight,--more precious than the whole world. It has been purchased at infinite cost, and Christ will never abandon the soul for whom he has died. The soul may leave him, and thus be overwhelmed with temptation; but Christ can never turn from one for whom he has paid the ransom of his own life" The Faith I Live By, p. 57.6 (Ellen G. White).

    If we accept the Trinity/SDA Triestic Doctrine - and if we claim that Ellen White supported and taught this doctrine - then we must THROW OUT the MANY statements made by her that: "the Saviour is our COMFORTER" (MR. vol. 8, p. 49) - PLEASE NOTE: that the term "COMFORTER" is uniquely reserved as a name for the HOLY SPIRIT (Christ HIMSELF referred to the Holy Spirit in this manner in John 14:16). Yet we have so many other SOP references stating clearly that the JESUS IS THE COMFORTER -- please note the following. "JESUS THE COMFORTER" (MR vol. 19, p. 298), ".this refers to the OMNIPRESENCE OF THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST CALLED THE COMFORTER" (MR vol. 14, p. 179), "CHRIST WAS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH" (Southern Watchman, October 25, 1898; par. 2), "HE IS THE COMFORTER" (RH Jan. 27, 1903; par. 13) - [if that statement isn't plain enough, consider the following:]"THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HIMSELF [Christ] divested of the personality of Humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent" (MR vol. 14; p. 23, par. 3) - [can Ellen be any more precise than that - I mean, really, how can we ignore such a plain and unequivocal statement as that? But of course there are MORE! Which, we must throw out if we are to maintain our belief in the Trinity/Triestic doctrine. Are YOU willing to ignore such plain statements? -- Just because our "Leaders" INSIST on maintaining the Trinitarian position and doctrine?],"While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, HE is still by HIS SPIRIT the minister of the church on earth" (DA p. 166, par. 2), "Jesus is waiting to breathe upon all His disciples, and give them the inspiration of HIS SANCTIFYING SPIRIT and transfuse the vital influence from HIMSELF to His people. They must act with HIS SPIRIT, that it may be no more they that live, but CHRIST that liveth in them. Jesus is seeking to impress upon them the thought that in giving HIS HOLY SPIRIT He is giving to them the glory which the Father hath given Him, that He and His people may be one in God" (MR vol. 2, pp. 36,37), "Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of His own life" (DA p. 827, par. 3) --- and MANY MORE. What are we to do with these statements? Can we REALLY conclude that Ellen is teaching the "Trinity" or modern SDA "Tritheism" in these statements? Can we really construe them to mean something other than they plainly say - in order to support our acceptance of the Trinity/Triestic doctrine that is the central doctrine upon which ALL the doctrines of the Catholic church are based?

    "The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the church..." Handbook for Today's Catholic, p. 11.

    [Note: This fact is fraught with deep and serious implications affecting the Everlasting Gospel, the Atonement, and the Sanctuary Message.]


    Seriously, what should we do with these statements? Should we force them to mean something other than they clearly mean - or should we adjust our understanding (through prayerful study and humility) to conform to a understanding that is in harmony with both them and the Bible - 
    "Now THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17)? We often quote the promise of the "SPIRIT" in Jn. 14:16,17 and we often use these texts to "Prove" that the Holy Spirit is a "Third", "Independent", "Co-Eternal", "Co-Existent" member of the Godhead (the TRINITARIAN/SDA 
    Tritheism view) -- but we don't often go on to include verse 18 where Jesus HIMSELF says that:"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."Christ clearly states here that HE is the one who will "Come" to us and that HE is the One who will Not leave us "comfortless". This statement is in complete harmony with all of the above SOP statements referencing CHRIST as being the "COMFORTER" and the "Holy Spirit". To IGNORE the BIBLE and the SOP regarding such an important topic as this is nothing short of Inconceivable and certainly does not speak well of those of us who claim to "Love the TRUTH"!



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